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Marketing Podcast with Laura Belgray
In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Laura Belgray. She is the founder of Talking Shrimp and co-creator of The Copy Cure. Laura is a copywriting expert who helps entrepreneurs find the perfect words to express and sell what they do in a way that gets them paid to be themselves. Her first upcoming book Tough Titties: On Living Your Best Life When You’re the F-ing Worst is a collection of her growing-up stories and saying “tough titties” to the supposed to’s in life such as: driving a car, being on time, handing in your paperwork, learning to roast a chicken, and having kids.
Key Takeaway:
Laura mentions how initially, she intended to simply make a book sharing her personal stories, but her editor challenged her to infuse them with meaning and life lessons and so she did. She mentions different stories from her life and how the outcomes led her to where she is today. This is a book that speaks to anyone who had ever felt behind in their life or career and didn’t conform to the “supposed tos” of life. The title, “Tough Titties,” is a way of saying sorry not sorry for not doing things the way others expect, and is an invitation for the readers to be unapologetically themselves.
Questions I ask Laura Belgray:
- [03:48] Why’d you write this book?
- [05:51] So, the book is mostly autobiographical. However, you are trying to teach big life lessons too, aren’t you?
- [08:57] One of the copywriter’s key tools is vulnerability. So, was that part hard for you?
- [10:30] You talked numerous times about being a late bloomer. So, where does that come from? Is that because you were saying I didn’t do what people expected?
- [13:56] Let’s dive into a couple of chapters. Tell me about How I met my husband.
- [15:47] Now please tell me more about the chapter titled The Most Driven Person.
- [17:15] You also talk about laziness, the good and the bad kind. I firmly agree with you that there is some awesome bad laziness. I think sometimes you need to be lazy to let things move forward.
- [20:03] I wanna do one more chapter How to be popular.
More About Laura Belgray:
- Talking Shrimp
- Pre-order Though Titties
- Follow Laura on Instagram
More About The Agency Certification Intensive Training:
Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!
John Jantsch (00:00): This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast was brought to you by the MarTech Podcast, hosted by my friend Ben Shapiro, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with episodes you can listen to in under 30 minutes. The MarTech Podcast share stories from world-class marketers who use technology to generate growth and achieve business and career success. And you can listen to it all on your lunch break. Recent episode featured Max Novak, the founder of Nova Cast, where he talked all about how podcast booking campaigns create value for listeners and for brands. You know, I'm a huge fan of being guests on podcasts, so listen, check out the MarTech podcast wherever you get your podcast.
(00:57): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch, and my guest today is Laura Belgray. She's the founder of Talking Shrimp, a co-creator of The Copy Cure and is a copywriting expert who helps entrepreneurs find their perfect words to express and sell what they do in a way that gets them paid to be themselves through her work with hundreds of clients, including online biggies like Marie Forlio and Amy Porterfield. She's seen firsthand that putting you into your copy and all through your business is pure magic for getting people to love you up and share your ideas and happily click your buy button. It's like a copywriter wrote this thing, I don't know,
John Jantsch (01:38): Her book. We're gonna, her book we're gonna talk about today is not necessarily about copywriting. It's called Tough Titties: On Living Your Best Life When You're F-ing, when You Are The F-ing Worst. So, Laura, welcome back to the show we were just talking about, it's been a few years,
Laura Belgray (01:56): It has been a few years. Thank you so much for having me back, especially to talk about this not necessarily copywriting book, Tough Titties.
John Jantsch (02:05): You, you know, in fact, I don't know if it was you or publicist, but some, somebody kinda said, gosh, does John really want me back on this show? Because this isn't a business book necessarily, but frankly what you talk about in this book, every entrepreneur goes through
Laura Belgray (02:36):
John Jantsch (03:32): I was gonna say it kind of, it de it definitely reeks of pop culture that that's how I kind of kind of see the, the cover. So again, I'm sorry Li listeners,
Laura Belgray (03:50):
(04:39): She was in the city and she, we were sitting on the floor stretching and she said to me, so, so tell me, do you have like a body of work? And I was like, well, I have my, I've got blog posts,
John Jantsch (05:51): So it's largely autobiographical. However, you know, you are trying to teach big life lessons too, aren't you?
Laura Belgray (05:59): I am. I honestly, I thought I was gonna get to just slap together a bunch of stories that I like to tell, but I discovered through the process and from my editor who
John Jantsch (07:14): Frankly, thank God you had that editor because there are a lot of editors that would've phone phoned that in and said, you know, send it on to line copy and you know, frankly that's the editor's job. You know, I had an editor on one of my first books that used to always say, you're doing too much throat clearing here,
Laura Belgray (07:59): Yes, it did. I mean, first of all, as I said, I set out, determined not to write the kind of book that I was supposed to write in the space, in the online space. Coming from a business background. I was supposed to write a copywriting book, a marketing book, a self-help book, something with bullet points at the end of each chapter or cyber or your next steps. And I was like, I am not doing that. I refuse. I want this to be, I was a little snobby about it. I was like, I want this to be a literary book. And yeah. So, and I kind of felt like the structure of a literary book is whatever I wanna make it, which is not true at all. So yes, but I was, I was defiant about structuring it the way you are supposed to. And I am glad that I had that, you know, this editor that I have who yeah told me you're, you know, this needs to have str this needs to have wisdom to it, it needs to arc to some sort of meaning. And yeah,
John Jantsch (08:57): So, so one of the copywriters key tools is vulnerability. Mm-hmm.
Laura Belgray (09:09): No, that part was actually pretty easy. And it, you know, it could be because my, my father died in 2018 and I have a feeling that timing had something to do with me finally moving ahead on this book. There's a lot in there that I would not want him to read a lot that confirms his suspicions back when I was in my twenties and living at home and staying out till four or all night. Like what? I we're
John Jantsch (09:37): Not going, we're not going into that chapter by the way.
Laura Belgray (09:39):
John Jantsch (10:29): Yeah. You talked numerous times about being a late bloomer, you know, from a career standpoint, I think that anybody who would look at your current body of work would say that you're quite accomplished. So, you know, where's the late bloomer come from? Is that just because you were saying I didn't do what people expected?
Laura Belgray (10:51): I think that is part of it. I mean if, you know, if you read the book you might say, oh, like Laura was handed opportunities from early on, like just a year outta college, got this job and then that job and then that job. But I always felt like I was on a delay. Everybody was moving faster than me. Sure. My first year out of college everybody was out getting jobs, getting internships, getting, you know, working as paralegals making money. And I just, I didn't want any of it. And I was waiting around to find a job that I really liked. And that's been most of my career is saying like, no, I don't wanna do that. I can't do that because I don't want to. I'm not very good at doing things I don't want to
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(13:46): Yeah, I think the adventure path is the way to go, which mm-hmm
Laura Belgray (14:13): How I met my husband. Well that's a story of how I met my husband. But
John Jantsch (14:19): Know now
Laura Belgray (14:19): I
John Jantsch (14:20): Wanna hear it. No, nothing gets named a chapter title without it being a significant story
Laura Belgray (14:26):
John Jantsch (15:46):
Laura Belgray (15:59):
John Jantsch (17:15): You also talk about laziness
Laura Belgray (17:35): I agree. So yeah, I think that just like with cholesterol, there's good cholesterol and bad cholesterol, good fat and bad fats like guacamole, you know, avocado is good fat. I think there's good lazy and bad
John Jantsch (17:46): This week. This week they'll,
Laura Belgray (17:48): It'll be better. Yeah. This way. Yes, exactly.
(18:39): And to me that's good lazy because a lot of people, especially women, have a hard time not doing anything. They have a really hard time with blank space on our calendar, which is something I relish to the like, I love it when there's nothing on my calendar. My favorite kind of day is blank. Yes. And so that's the, that I think is the good lazy because people struggle with it. They struggle to like relax and be okay not doing something every moment. And then the bad lazy is I would say is what I call fear dressed in pajamas. It is resistance. Resistance to doing what you know you need to do. The fear of not doing a good enough job. That's where the like the bad procrastinating comes from. Yeah. It's like putting it off because you're so afraid that you're not gonna do it right or knock it out of the park and yeah, that stops, that has stopped me a lot in my life,
John Jantsch (19:33): You know, and that's the kind that puts a lot of stress on you that you don't realize. I think a lot of times, you know, there's a line from the Scarlet letter when the protagonist, you know, is finally kind of released from all the guilt and shame that had been put on her and is she did not, she did not know the weight until she felt the freedom. And I think that's the way a lot of that does that to us. It's like we don't realize how much this stuff is weighing us down until we're like, oh yeah, you know, free of it and then you're like, holy crap, that was, I'm much lighter. That was, you know, that was definitely weighing me down. Yes. So I wanna do one, one more chapter, how to be popular.
Laura Belgray (20:09): How to be popular. That was about the year that I switched schools. And this wasn't the typical from, you know, public school to a posh private boarding school or something like that where it was that kind of obvious culture shock. It was from one private school to another private school. There was a culture shock. There were totally different places. And my, you know, old, my former private school that I was in for 11 years was like laid back progressive school where you could say, you know, where if you are handed back your test papers, you could just go around the room, say, what'd you get, what'd you get? You get, and then the new school was an all girls school and very traditional and a little up and competitive. Competitive. And you know, if you said, what'd you get? Person would like move their paper away from you
(21:06): But it, so that chapter is mostly about me trying to fit in there and the contradictions of, you know, you're supposed to look effortless and have the right shoes that are scuffed from years of, you know, salt air, corrosion on daddy's yacht and be really chill. And it was a certain kind of preppy old money aesthetic there. And you know, that contradiction with, you know, you've gotta work hard and you're not supposed to be seen working hard, which is just like in our current, you know, online business culture. You're not, you're supposed to be the picture of ease. And yet we still have people yelling at us to hustle. And there's such a confusion between grinding and anti, anti cult, anti hussle culture and hustle culture and being in our, in my new school it was called Being a Grind. And you are not supposed to be a grind, but you were supposed to get good grades.
(22:06): But the, you know, the uh, punchline of that chapter is basically that I tried to, I really wanted to have shoes like everybody else. I knew I needed this right. Kind of beat up, broken in leather boat shoes. And I, my mom, I begged my mom to buy me a pair and she bought me a pair of Docksiders or Topsiders, I forget what brand. Yes. But they were yes berry and they were glaringly virginal fresh. So shiny leather
John Jantsch (22:56):
Laura Belgray (22:59): Yes. I and, and then attacked by a Tiger
John Jantsch (23:03):
Laura Belgray (23:15): Yes, please. Well you can connect with me @talkingshrimp.com. That's my digital home and I'm mostly on Instagram as at Laura Belgray. So please do connect with me in either of those places. But you wanna get a copy of Tough Titties or several copies and then you will unlock more bonuses. I'm gonna actually have writing trainings and things like that to go with it, even though it's not a copywriting book that is @toughtittiesbook.com and all the book sellers are represented there, all the ones that matter. So please come by and score a copy or several, they're great as the set tough titties, you know,
John Jantsch (23:59): Awesome. Well, again, as I said, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the show and hopefully we'll run into you again one of these days out there on the road.
Laura Belgray (24:07): I would love that. Thank you so much for having me on.
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